Interview with David Clutterbuck

Citation

(2006), "Interview with David Clutterbuck", Development and Learning in Organizations, Vol. 20 No. 4. https://doi.org/10.1108/dlo.2006.08120daf.001

Interview with David Clutterbuck

Interview with David Clutterbuck

Professor David Clutterbuck is one of Europe’s most prolific and well-known management writers and thinkers, best-known in recent years for his work on mentoring, on which he consults around the world. He has written more than 40 books, and hundreds of articles on a variety of management topics. Co-founder of The European Mentoring Centre and of The ITEM Group (a leading provider of internal communication solutions), David also runs a thriving international consultancy, Clutterbuck Associates, which specializes in helping people in organizations develop the skills to help others.

What attracted you to working in this field?

Like so many choices, it happened much by accident. As a journalist, I brought the concept of structured mentoring from the US to Europe, in an article. Then I wrote the first book, which appeared at the same time as the first substantive US book, by Kathy Kram. The book led to helping companies design and install mentoring programmes.

What do you see as the biggest challenge in your current role?

There are several related challenges. There’s a lot of confusion between coaching and mentoring and between the US (sponsorship) and European (developmental) approaches to mentoring. Most of the research in mentoring is sponsorship based and therefore not very relevant. So we need to build up a body of European research and case study. This is happening through the activities of the Mentoring and Coaching Research Unit at Sheffield Hallam University and through the European Mentoring and Coaching Council.

There’s also a lot of concern about how much to impose standards on coaching and mentoring. On the one hand these are supposed to be informal methods of learning. However, it takes skill to be effective as a coach or mentor. For someone doing this professionally, going on a five day course is not adequate. For the EMCC, a big challenge is how to be inclusive of all levels of competence, yet provide a benchmark, by which users of executive coaches and executive mentors can judge who is able to do the role effectively. There are a lot of people in this role, who are doing harm rather than good.

What is the most influential book you have written and why?

Everyone Needs a Mentor is now in its fourth edition and, so I’m told, the CIPD’s all-time top selling professional title. It was very timely (so many of my other books have been too far ahead of their time!) and has changed radically as we’ve learned from experience and research.

What are the biggest obstacles to effective learning in organisations?

The lack of genuine dialogue is what hinders learning most. People don’t have the communication skills to hold insightful conversations with others, who bring a different perspective. The following is a quote from our most recent book:

The purpose of learning dialogue is not to find a better answer. It is to find a better question. From a better question flows a stream of possibilities, in which better answers are eddies on the journey to discovery.

Who would you consider to be the key influencers in this field?

In the US context, the key influencers are undoubtedly Kathy Kram and Belle Rose Ragins. Kathy did the original studies into mentoring. Belle has widened the agenda and looked at the application of mentoring, particularly in the context of diversity.

In Europe, there is no doubt that the Mentoring and Coaching Research Unit has led the way. My own thinking has been greatly helped by David Megginson and Bob Garvey there. Other influential figures have been Julie Hay, Eric Parsloe, the late Unn Solle from Norway, Kirsten Paulsen and her colleagues from Denmark and Liz Borredon from France.

Where do you see development and learning in organisations in ten years’ time?

I suspect and hope that we’ll see a much more integrated approach to learning, in which classroom learning, computer-based resources and methods of learning dialogue, such a coaching and mentoring, are integrated into a coherent overall approach at both individual, team and organisational levels. Our current research and good practice identification relates to developing the kind of culture, that can sustain such an integrated approach.

What is your biggest achievement to date in the learning and development field?

That’s probably for others to judge. It’s been nice to collect the various visiting professorships and so on – and I particularly valued the honorary doctorate I received from Sheffield Hallam University last year – but there’s always a goal to come. I hope this year to put the lid on the most substantive study ever done in developmental mentoring – one that is both cross-sectional and longitudinal – and that to me will be a major achievement.

Are these issues attracting the attention they deserve in organisations today?

Coaching and mentoring have been in fashion for a while now. I don’t see any signs of this abating. Organisations seem to need them more as they have to cope with faster change and the need to operate as lean machines.

What is the key corporate event in your calendar this year?

The EMCC conference is the highlight for me each year. This year it will be in Switzerland (1-2 December). It’s a two day binge of learning for me – and it never disappoints!

Which company do you admire most in relation to learning and development?

I’ve been lucky enough to work with hundred of fascinating companies all over the world. If I had to pick out one organisation, it would be one where I’d be involved over a long period, which had achieved radical change in its learning culture. Some years ago, I reported to the Board of what is now the Audit Commission, that it had the most unsupportive climate for people development I had ever surveyed. Last year, the same organisation was the first to achieve gold standard in the International Standards for Mentoring Programmes in Employment. I think they have a great deal to be proud of.

Key differences between management development and leadership development

Warren Bennis’ distinction between management and leadership has been abused greatly. He never meant to suggest that one was superior to the other. The reality is that effective leaders have to have management competence and vice versa. In my view, there is just development, and this needs to be customised to the individual, their circumstances and the organisation, in which they work. Every manager needs to be a leader in the context of being a role model for developing themselves and others; every leader needs to manage their own and other people’s development.